CFPB Director Rohit Chopra Discusses AI Oversight, Warns About Big Tech’s Expanding Footprint in Financial Services and Data Collection
In a new episode of the Washington AI Network Podcast recorded Friday, January 10, Rohit Chopra, director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and a former FTC commissioner, joined host Tammy Haddad to discuss how his agency is tackling artificial intelligence, and the growing power of Big Tech’s in financial services. The frank and wide-ranging conversation took place on the same day that Meta chairman Mark Zuckerberg appeared on the Joe Rogan podcast and criticized federal scrutiny of Meta, singling out the CFPB. Chopra confirms he plans to serve out his five-year term in the face of the impending transition to a new administration under President-elect Trump.
Chopra Addressing Mark Zuckerberg, Meta, and Big Tech
Asked about Meta and Mark Zuckerberg, Chopra emphasized how tech giants are increasingly active in finance, calling them “very large, big tech empires” that run their own payment operations:
“I look at some of these very large, big tech empires, and I think some of them like to say, “Well, we’re a search company. We’re a social media company.” And that’s really not right. They are operating cloud infrastructure, and many of them are operating big banking and payments operations too. And I think some of the challenges that we have as a society with them is that they almost run their own kind of governments.”
“So I really worry when there are private companies that can dictate the rules of engagement for our whole country, because where is the accountability in that? And really should that be the way we want our economy to run? Or shouldn’t we have a way that we can more easily vote with our feet.” He warned that U.S. financial services could move toward a “Chinese-style system of surveillance” if left unchecked: “I don’t want us to lurch to a Chinese-style system of surveillance. I want us to have a vibrant way in which little companies stand a chance and that they’re not squashed by their bigger competitors.”
Chopra on AI Pilots’ Access to Personal Data
Chopra also raised concerns about personalized pricing—where data from a user’s online behavior and transactions could be used to generate individualized price points:
“And one of the things we worry about is to what extent is your payment information just being linked to almost everything about your life? And are we going to arrive at a day where the airline knows that you need to get to that funeral quickly or when they’re selling you something online, that they know your mental state or they know exactly what you paid or saw on a competing store? Does that lead to a degree of personalized pricing in ways that make price tags almost a part of history and just gone? And that each of us, that our behavior and our psychographic profile is being used to price us.”
“I think that that’s why we have to make sure that whatever laws we have to stop intrusive surveillance, that we really use that aggressively. And we are seeing big tech companies want to start their own currencies. They want to be able to get more and more and more information, sometimes to feed foundational AI models that other technologies will be built on top of. So there has got to be some reasonable limits on the types of information that is harvested and monetized about us.”
Chopra on Tech Companies Moving into Financial Services
“We are seeing big tech companies want to start their own currencies. They want to be able to get more and more and more information, sometimes to feed foundational AI models that other technologies will be built on top of. So there has got to be some reasonable limits on the types of information that is harvested and monetized about us.
Right now, you have a lot of big tech companies – Google, Apple, others – really getting deep into financial services and payments. We even had to take a big enforcement action against Apple and Goldman Sachs for their financial services offerings. And the interesting thing that we have studied and investigated is the volume of data being collected about your individual payments when you tap that phone or when you’re online using those payment providers. And it is lurching to a system that is much more like China.
“In China, you have two big players – WeChat Pay, Alipay – part of the big tech behomoths there. And they really have an insight on every single payment that is happening with consumers. And one of the things we worry about is to what extent is your payment information just being linked to almost everything about your life? And are we going to arrive at a day where the airline knows that you need to get to that funeral quickly or when they’re selling you something online, that they know your mental state or they know exactly what you paid or saw on a competing store? Does that lead to a degree of personalized pricing in ways that make price tags almost a part of history and just gone? And that each of us, that our behavior and our psychographic profile is being used to price us. And I think that that’s why we have to make sure that whatever laws we have to stop intrusive surveillance, that we really use that aggressively. And we are seeing big tech companies want to start their own currencies. They want to be able to get more and more and more information, sometimes to feed foundational AI models that other technologies will be built on top of. So there has got to be some reasonable limits on the types of information that is harvested and monetized about us.”
Chopra also addressed speculation that the new administration may dismantle the CFPB:
“When you’re talking about deleting agencies, are you just tempting a big financial crisis? Are you tempting mass fraud to be perpetrated?”
“I think a lot of people are sick and tired of being gouged on their credit cards. And that’s something we really focused on. I think we’ve seen broad public support for tamping down this proliferation of junk fees that just seems to be popping up in every part of life. And the CFPB has been ridding illegal junk fees really every day these past few years. So we’ll see.”
“And I’m hopeful that when it comes to protecting consumers, that the only place that is controversial is with lawyers and lobbyists in Washington, because I think everywhere else, people want the financial system to have some accountability.”
Advice for the Incoming Trump Administration:
When asked about his advice for the new White House leadership, Chopra cautioned against policies that prioritize a handful of dominant players:
“Well, I think that we really want to make sure that we are not just crowning corporate royalty. And I think that’s actually the way Europe likes to do it in their history, which is they like a few really big companies. And I think the way in which the US has done really, really well is we have lots of little players duking it out and that anyone is able to bring their great idea to market and that they don’t need permission slips from the very biggest companies in our country. And I really think there is some question about whether some of the big giants in the industries that we have, are they actually choking off progress or really, are we going to have a system that looks more and more like Europe and China.”